Hiya,

I think it's time for some new toys. I got a biiig bonus at work a couple of weeks ago (= 2 months pay!) and it finally occurred to me yesterday that I could actually spend some of it. So I'm open to suggestions for what I could spend it on, and no NOT you guys! haha. I mean something nice for my PC!

Here's my current spec:

CPU Type DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, 266 MHz (10 x 267)
Motherboard Name Foxconn P9657AA Series (3 PCI, 1 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x4, 1 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR2 DIMM, Audio, Gigabit LAN)
Motherboard Chipset Intel Broadwater P965
System Memory 2048 MB
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX (512 MB)
Audio Adapter Creative SB X-Fi Fatal1ty Sound Card

The real question is - what's the weakest point atm? Should I be looking at upgrading the processor or the graphic card, where am I falling behind?
Say for something like Vanguard, I'm guessing better graphic cards mean you can turn the settings up, but is there anything spending money can do for the very low FPS you see in the big cities?

Then there's that SLI thing where you join 2 cards up together, I've never done that. Am I going to have power supply problems or is there anything else to watch out for with 2 graphics cards? Which is better, 1 absolute top-of-the-range graphics card, or 2 pretty good ones? Hmm, and how the *bleep* do you fit 2 in anyway?

My sound card is pretty decent, and I'm very happy with my monitor. I suppose there are those fancy keyboards, but I'm fussy I need a VERY light action keyboard more than I need extra buttons. Any other ideas for PC-related toys?

Advice and suggestions please!

Sor

if u want to use SLI, check the combined power output (not the marketing value) of your power supply and calculate if it has the needed reserves for a second VGACard

bleeeb *everything but the memory is beyond my spec*

well I would check the official forums if the issues that been mentioned with the Geforce 8800 GTX some ages ago are solved - oh right I allways take used graphic crads as donation :b
For SLI you also should have pretty identical cards and a well powered power supply - and see how good SLI mode is supported by VG in the forums.
The other parts, well max. clock is 3 GHz, so not that much more and personally I wouldn't expect too much from quad core for gaming atm - but maybe I am wrong. Well and the other point, there are a lot changes upcoming, like 45nm structures for the CPU which should also come with increased CPU clock at some point - which might make DDR3 RAM usuable which might get down to a reasonable price some time.
Oh and don't forget the old rule: never buy those stuff just before Xmas

Joa

EDIT: haven't checked the board before - forget SLI with that one, only boards with Nvidia chipset can support SLI atm.

Don't go for SLI unless you want to invest a lot of time before you play a new game or upgrade drivers.

New Games:

By default SLI is disabled for games newer than the driver release date.
You'll need to manually adjust the settings which is just damn annoying.


Drivers:

Every new Beta breaks SLI for my machine, I have to use modded drivers since months.
Another BIG unmentioned issue is that SLI doesn't support two monitors.

Don't get me wrong - SLI is super fast and my system is bottlenecked by the CPU at each game - but it took me almost half a year to get the system stable.
I had to buy a 3rd (!) graphics card to get dualscreen again. Bottom line: I'll never go for SLI again.

About mixing card: The Graphics chipset must match, memory doesn't need to but the smaller amount will be used. Mainboard must also handle SLI plus you need a very good PSU.



Regarding your System:

Harddrive, Harddrive, Harddrive. Games which constantly load stuff (like MMOs or games with no level/maps system) use the Harddisk a lot.
Buy a very fast S-ATA HDD.


best,
Arcat

Hard drive is a SATA 400 GB, 16 MB Cache, 7200 RPM
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=132
Anyway it already meets with Arcat's approval hehe.

SLI sounds like waaay too much hassle for me, so I think that leaves me looking at getting a single, top of the range (or near the top) graphics card. Time to read up on the reviews I guess, and Vanguard compatibility. Bah, I hate research!

And erm, why not buy before Xmas? Are you thinking of stuff being cheaper after Xmas in the sales, or that retailers send out dodgy stuff pre-Xmas? Both my last 2 PCs were bought in the pre-Xmas months, heh I'm actually making a habit of this...

Sor

I'd suggest getting two harddrives, so you can have Windows and pagefile on one, and game on the other. I also strongly suggest not getting a Creative card. Soundblasters practically rape the PCI protocol, potentially making your system more unstable than it needs to be. Try a Turtlebeach instead. Since it's all abstracted in DX, the games won't know the difference.

Sorry, Joa - you posted a minute before I turned off the Database for an update. Your post wasn't in the backup.


Reconstruction: Original by Joaqim


Umm WDC, seems you had luck, seen a lot of the consumer hard disc drives crashing - so it seems they saved a bit too much money on the construction, also talked with a computer dealer a while ago and they have a lot of those coming back. Well, else if you want it fast, go for their 10k series, not that much capacity but seems to be pretty solid and high performance, if you need more and your mainboard is supporting it well, do RAID O. About the suggest from trams, that way I seen more effect for Hz then VG, but maybe just my crappy system.
About the soundcard, creative is a good one, as long as the system is running with it smile.gif

About Xmas, at least around here the month after Xmas the prices are dropping quite a bit.

Joa

Right then, one new hard drive coming up!
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 SATA 750GB 7200rpm 32MB cache

Now for a peek at graphics cards...

Hmm. 8800s seem ok in Vanguard: 8800 issues resolved?

8800 Ultra is really too much money to spend, given how much time I spend on Vanguard instead of in Vanguard hehe. But an 8800 GTX would make it look pretty I bet.

So for my next question: Does it matter which card manufacturer I go for? Maybe not the cheapest, most budget version...?

Well, the Ultra also might be a bit....ummm...hot - perfect for PSU stress test.
If I'd looking for a 8800 GTX I guess I'd preferably loooking for one from XFX, but don't forget to check your PSU as well - even this one is able to consume something like 150 watt at max.

Hehe Joa you just beat me to it...

Power supply recommended for 880 GTX = 450W

*looks in case*

Power supply in my PC = 420W

waaaaa!!

*wonders how hard changing a power supply would be, and looks up what they cost*

Hmm not that cheap, and no way I could risk getting a cheap crappy power supply, that's what blew up in the old PC (and took the motherboard with it). So now the 8800 GTX is looking both more expensive and more hassle....

*does some more research*

Okay, the newer 8800 GT is looking like a very nice option, only needs 400W power supply, quite a bit cheaper and has some good reviews:
8800 GT Review
Only problem now is they're seriously out of stock everywhere, haha!

Putting in a new PSU is pretty easy. All the cables only fit where they're supposed to go, and the PSU itself comes loose with 4 screws.

Just remember to de-zap yourself first.

Heya Sor,

as trams says, changing a PSU isn't too hard, only really bad hing is that you need to log out from Vg to do this . And don't look at the power output only, better expect that the 8800 GTX can produce a peak current of 18A on the 12V line. And no, no crap PSU please, too many eat loads of power but aren't very efficient so their output is still not as high as it should be - and of course they also easily blow up.

The 8800 GT with 512MB, yeah it's slower, but still higher performance as the 8800 GTS and less power consuming, as the 8800 GT is shrinked to 65nm while the 8800 GTX (GTS) is made in 90nm. Memory bus is just 256 Bit though, not sure how much effect this got for VG......
But atm I guess it's way easier to get a 8800 GTX + PSU then a 8800 GT


regards
Joa

8800GTX + decent power supply is at least £200 more than a 8800GT, and given that I just ordered a HDD as well that would be going a bit too far hehe. I'm sure that during the few hours a week I spend in Vanguard it'll look suitably prettier with a 8800GT than it did before!

I hunted around and found a shop with 10x 8800GT cards left in stock and ordered one before going to bed. No surprise that today they're now out of stock as well, but mine has been despatched and should arrive in the next couple of days.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

If I can be bothered, I'll record my average FPS (in and out of a city) with the old card and the new card, let you know what happens. Could then repeat the same thing when I switch the installation to the new HDD.

Hmm, what's the chance of being able to simply move the Vanguard installation to another drive I wonder? Might have to reinstall, copy in the newer assets and do a full scan... oh well playing with hard drives can wait until the Xmas break!

You might need to review the windows registry for hardcoded paths.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software and HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software - look at both trees for Sony, SOE, Vanguard or Sysomething (vendor of the game)


best,
Arcat

I don't think things can get much worse this week... the delivery company has lost my parcel. The parcel with my graphics card in. The graphics card that is now completely out of stock everywhere, so getting a refund won't get me another card. whaaaaaaa!!! *sob*

Yeah it must be really rare now - if workers of the delivery company already start to pick it out....

Call me paranoid, but I thought of that too.

Hehe, a good one comes to my mind which i've read just recently:

"Just because i'm paranoid doesn't mean i'm not being persecuted."

It's back in stock, woohoo! So they're sending a replacement out as fast as they can, maybe a couple of days....

Please no one steal, erm, "misplace" this one too...


PS: For guildies living in the UK, Play.com gets kudos for how they've handled it. Not their fault the delivery company screwed up, and they've been great on the phone twice now.

The PC surgery is completed. Not too much trouble, only a few hiccups like:

"How the *bleep* do I get that old graphics card out, when the release catch is completely inaccessible underneath the card?" (Whoever came up with that design should be shot imo.)

"WTF... where's the power socket on this new hard drive? *quick bit of googling later* Oh okay it has a SATA power connector thingy then."

"Oh crap I don't have a spare SATA data cable to connect it with" *smile sweetly at boyfriend and ask him to drive me to the PC superstore*.

Yeah, could have been worse!



So now for the results from testing in Vanguard:

GeForce 7900GTX => 8800GT. I turned up the texture setting from Medium-Low to Medium-High yesterday. Yep, it's prettier. Actually the textures look a lot more 3D. The patterns on the wall aren't just flat patterns, they have grooves in them now. Groovy patterns! I tried turning it up to High, but as Knud predicted it slows the game down (internet speed or something he reckoned). Didn't seem to play any smoother after the card change though, and no increase in FPS either that I could be certain of.

Then this morning I moved the Vanguard installation to the new secondary SATA hard drive. Woooot!! Seriously less hitching now. Kudos to Arcat and tramsan hehe. Out in the countryside I can run around and spin the view on all axes and it's completely smooth. For the ultimate test however I took the riftway to New Targonor and galloped into the city, hitting sprint on the approach. Yeah I know, completely suicidal but what the hell. It was smooth on the slope down past the temple, but turned shaky in the Adventurer's Terrace and I had to stop just before the crafting area to let the poor PC catch up hehe. I think I made it further than I would have done before though. And once the initial loading was done, it was pretty smooth when running and turning around inside the city.

What I'm not seeing from these hardware changes is a significant increase in FPS. It's still reporting the same maximum of around 55-60 that I was seeing before. Ok maybe it was more like 50-60 before. However some people talk about getting 80 FPS (Knud, Monkee too?). How is that possible? My PC just will not go above 60, am I capped somehow? I've never seen it say 61. It's no big deal, but I'm curious about it if anyone has any possible answers.

Sor

Grats on the successful operation!

About 60fps: Some games come with an upper FPS limit, straight XBOX conversions often have it at 24, Vanguard seems to be limited to 60. You can try to search for '60' in the config files and edit it to a higher value. If the game creates too much CPU time reset it back to the default value.


best,
Arcat

the vgclient.ini has 2 entries for FPS:
MinDesiredFrameRate=35.000000
MaxDesiredFrameRate=100.000000
but if they are effective .. hmm ?

You don't need any more FPS than 60 - the human eye can't see any difference between 60 and 600. Anything above is just wasting CPU cycles,

Hey!

Yeah im between 40 and 50 out hunting etc

20 ish around lots of players/towns

Pleased you got it all running

Jiffy

Hmm 60 FPS - you got vsync enabled? Well 60 FPS (= 60 Hz) sounds a bit like the refresh rate of TFT screens which might be the limit if that thingie is enabled...




Well you can't ever be l33d with values below 150 FPS in the game you are playing :b

hehe well it's just numbers, like I said I'm more curious than bothered about it. It plays pretty well, that's the important thing.

Vert sync is off, but I did find this though in the vgclient.ini:

DesiredRefreshRate=60

And yes my monitor is fixed at 60Hz, so erm maybe I should just leave it alone then...

I just ordered one of those brandnew ATI Radeon 3850 Graphic cards (for only 140 €).

Will see how it performs - and post in here.

points at Hag...outsider! Using ATI card and AMD CPU :b

And proud of it!

Always liked and supported the "Underdogs". Simple thinking: "Only dead fishes swim with the flow of the water."